Heretic - Coven

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Opulent
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Heretic - Coven

#1 Post by Opulent » Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:19 pm

I recorded a very sloppy run on Ettingrinder's Coven map.

Not really worth watching, but it's always fun to see a new Heretic map played.
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Re: Heretic - Coven

#2 Post by PVS » Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:06 pm

ETTiNGRiNDER in his maps always applies a strategy - to deprive a player of ammunition and artifacts, something like, he thus reaches the desired skill level. I personally do not like this strategy, because, as a result of this, it turns out some strange gameplay and this is not a Heretic gameplay, in my opinion. Heretic need more actions and fun, not such sniper gameplay.

I like the demo, you play good, move fast and know the map, from your description I understood why. You are here using crushers, you also lacked ammo, right? Your memory problems on this map are very strange, because I don’t have them, not see any crashes near the exit door, on Chocolate Heretic 2.3.0 and Heretic-Plus, also ETTiNGRiNDER tested it on dos exe himself, i'm sure in this, strange... Thanks for the second personal demo for me, I like it, and want more! :)

I also have one, but not as interesting as yours. If this map already has a separate topic, I think, I can leave it here. This is the first attempt demo, which I recorded a couple of years ago.
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Re: Heretic - Coven

#3 Post by Opulent » Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:54 pm

Here's a better demo I just threw together last night.

I'll get to your posted demo tomorrow!
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Re: Heretic - Coven

#4 Post by PVS » Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:54 pm

DEMO PLAYBACK: start [coven946.lmp]
----- Start Map: E1M1 -- Skill Level: 4 ------
- SpeedTimer: Yellow key time: 00:26.60
- SpeedTimer: Green key time: 02:36.51
- SpeedTimer: Blue key time: 05:31.17
- SpeedTimer: Last level time: 09:46.23
- Level statistics -- Kills: 133/133 Items: 15/18 Secrets: 6/7
DEMO PLAYBACK: finish [coven946.lmp]

I know that you know: if you use a wings and fly into secret sector - you need fall/touch to the floor in order to engine count the secret. But, of course, I believe that you have max in this demo! :) Why you don't use -demoextend parameter in Chocolate Heretic 2.3.0 and above? You can press stop demo/recording button in stats screen in this case, so you can know your statistics and time. vvHeretic4 works like this and such demos allowed in Heretic-N for iwad records.

Thanks for the good demo!
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Re: Heretic - Coven

#5 Post by Opulent » Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:19 pm

Well, darn it. I did know both of those things once. I had forgotten both. Thanks for reminding me.
In my defense, I haven't played Heretic in 15 years or so, so it is easy to forget after that much time.

Also, I enjoyed your blind coven demo, but it exits when you die. I don't have jheretic 0.93(any version).
I bet it plays with your version to the end.

I forgot to say last time that I agree with your assessment of maps with too little ammo. I don't care for DOOM maps that require berserk punching or other such nonesense. To me, that is not fun at all. This is a game that is supposed to be fun as well as challenging.
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Re: Heretic - Coven

#6 Post by PVS » Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:43 am

vvHeretic4 playback such demos without problems, for playback my demo on Chocolate Heretic 2.3.0 and above:
chocolate-heretic -file Coven.wad -playdemo hfaCovn1 -demoextend

-demoextend remove all Heretic/Hexen vanilla demo limits for demo recording and playback. Also, if you recording on choco - add -shortticfix command, it remove original left turning bug for mouse/keyboard, when turn left much slowly than turn right (this is old Doom bug).

15 years not play Heretic - yes, this is much time. Except these two, I know only one your Heretic demo - h2b5-026, which you record in 2002.
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Re: Heretic - Coven

#7 Post by Opulent » Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:10 pm

oh, I understand now. I thought that -demoextend was only on recording.

So which port do you recommend for limit-removing demo recording?
Doomsday? Zdoom?

Because there seem to be a lot of cool maps that require limit-removing(mostly for visiplane issues).
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Re: Heretic - Coven

#8 Post by PVS » Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:23 pm

I recommend only vanilla demo format, of course :)
For limit-removing possible use vvHeretic4 (Heretic.com) + Heretic-Plus (HereticP.exe), put Heretic-Plus in vvHeretic4/Heretic folder, command line example:
Heretic.com -exe Hereticp.exe -file myWad.wad -record myDemo

In this case you will remove all vanilla demo limits (by vvHeretic4) and add limit-removing (by Heretic-Plus), this working fine, I'm testing many times, but need DOS/Win9x or DosBox, of course.

For limit-removing on Windows only one vanilla compatible port I know - Crispy Doom:
https://www.chocolate-doom.org/wiki/ind ... rispy_Doom

This port based on Chocolate source, have limit-removing and Heretic/Hexen versions, but last officially supported by author version with Heretic/Hexen - this is Crispy Doom 3.2 2015 (with limit-removing, but without removing any vanilla demo limits for Heretic/Hexen), later he drop support Heretic/Hexen and working only with Doom. Some time ago, in Crispy builds - again appeared Heretic/Hexen exe's, but officially NOT supported, this exe's compiled with latest Chocolate source and have removing vanilla demo limits, exactly this latest versions you need find and try. This is page with daily builds:
http://latest.chocolate-doom.org/

Heretic/Hexen exe's must be in 'nondoom' folder in archive, if not - try find them in latest Crispy stable builds. Only one problem I see - he not compile normal setup.exe for Heretic/Hexen exe's, in this case possible try latest setup.exe from Crispy Doom 3.2 or run Heretic/Hexen only from command line and edit cfg-files manually. I can't test latest Crispy Heretic/Hexen, because they do not work on my old OS's. But do not forget about -demoextend, if you will use latest Crispy :)

Also, I have my version Chocolate Heretic 2.3.0, with limit-removing and my additions for demo playback/recording, but now it is not finished, may be later I can share this version. As you see, variants for Heretic + limit-removing in vanilla demo format - is present, need try.

Doomsday, this only one port which I always liked, but Doomsday not support demo recording/playback around 15 ears now, latest normal version with demo support - this is 1.8.6 (2005), and, as you know - it have his own demo format.
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